Thoughts on CodeOnTime delivery schedule

I'm very picky about what I choose to buy and what I choose not to.

Most of the time is about price/quality. Sometimes is about delivery (the process of making the goods coming to my door). Sometimes is about opportunity. Sometimes is about offers and discounts.

About CodeOnTime's roadmap I received a prior answer in which I was told that CodeOnTime sells CodeOnTime not a Roadmap and I've been struggling with the idea that such paradigm is not correct in its entirety because if I were to accept such premise for granted then I'd been accepting in my own detriment some lack of truthfulness from the vendor's side.

If you say in writing that you will delivery then you are obliged to comply and deliver. That's how the market works; otherwise, you shouldn't explicitly say or put yourself in a position of lying because customers will expect from you to deliver and on due time.

Problem with failing to deliver features on due time is that such way of behaving from the vendor affects directly the pocket of whom has already bought CodeOnTime. It is just like that because as soon as you buy the licensing time starts running for you.

So if a desired features is delivered just one day after your allowed update time had expired then you will miss the opportunity of having been granted to download such feature, even though you had already paid for it because it was supposed to had been delivered any other day in the past, not tomorrow.

That puts me in the position of awaiting as along as I can before buying in awaiting condition until CodeOnTime has finally delivered what it was understood had been delivered for real something tangible in my hands.

Maybe CodeOnTime should reconsider failing so many times in the matter of delivering on-time.

If you read topics in this community you'll find things that have been waited maybe too much too long and which are still undelivered at present release yet.
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  • My first year isn't up yet. I find that COT is doing everything that I need it to but I understand exactly what you're saying.

    I also use Soft Velocity Clarion and have been since it was first released back in the eighties for DOS based systems. I've kept my subscription up to date with them but they work it a different way. Your subscription lasts until a full working release, no matter how long it takes. They have currently released a pre version 11 and that's a couple of years or more since version 10. They won't ask to renew the subscription until a fully working version 11 is released. You don't mind paying your subscription when you know that you're going to get what's been promised, no matter how long it takes.

    Perhaps COT could think about doing something similar.
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    Over the past couple of years I have been working with COT I have seen this conversation rise up a number of times.

    Like Peter I find COT is doing all I want. I have found COT responsive on the forum and in the couple of support tickets I have had occasion to submit.

    If someone is looking to purchase a license on the yet to come features I would discourage them from doing that. The platform should be what they need now. Too many things, often unpredictable, can interfer with the timing and even change direction.

    I like seeing the roadmap, but what COT says is absolutely correct that is not what they sell. So COT meets a persons needs now or it doesn't. Purchase a license accordingly.
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  • Carlos (Pet Loki),

    You are violating the community guidelines once again. Do not use the words such as "lying" in your posts. Do not make duplicate posts that do not relate to the product features or issues.

    Peter,

    We have released ten (10) product updates since the date of your purchase - see the past releases at https://codeontime.com/releases/appli....

    Our product is not a subscription. You get a perpetual license. We do provide 6, 12, or 24 months of updates with some purchase options.

    The roadmap shows the product development direction. Carefully read disclaimers at https://codeontime.com/roadmap. The dates are provided to set expectations. All dates are subject to change without notice.

    Presently we are preparing release 8.7.5.0. The release will make your apps work both in modern web browsers and in native mode on iOS, Mac, and Windows platform. The last release was 2 months ago.
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    Customer Service - you have just confirmed what I have long felt was true. Your release schedule is really quite aggressive. I have benefited from that time and again.

    Thanks!
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  • I am obliged to try to hide my identity because I just complain about this and CodeOnTime doesn't like it.

    If you see example below, it doesn't seem right to me having said "delivered in the next few days" more than three months ago.

    Maybe "lying" is too strong to be used but also not allowing a customer to properly complain about "extreme inaccuracies" in delivering in due time is also very hard to digest from my side a s a customer.

    If I am not allowed to have something which was supposed to had been delivered 3 months ago. So if I need to download that feature I have to pay to CodeOnTime a new subscription for downloading updated.

    That is just no fair at all, ... or is it in any way?

    In http://community.codeontime.com/codeo...



    Customer Service (Company Admin) 3 months ago
    Jesus is referring to the account manager at https://manage.codeontime.com.

    The new account manager will go online in the next few days along with the release 8.7.5.0.

    The new account manager implements integrated product activation and will allow downloading Offline Sync Add-On.
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  • Company Admin,

    I'm not complaining about COT. I did say that COT does for me what I need and I'm really happy with the product, what's more I'll renew the subscription when it's due. I just pointed out how Soft Velocity work and wondered if it was possible for COT to do the same sort of thing.
    Like COT, Soft Velocity issue updates throughout the current release. I suppose that the big difference is that COT release updates and enhancements as and when they're ready rather than wait for a big release.

    As I keep saying, I'm personally happy with what I have from COT. I merely gave a view.
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    Further to my last comment. I should of course said that I'll be happy to renew the updates not subscription.

    I suspect that I'm probably older than most of you guys and have been in this game a long time. When I first started back in 1890 something (it feels like that long ago) everything was hand coded. Nothing like COT was available them days. Life is a lot easier now!!

    No more comments against COT from me.... ever again

    Peter
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    Carlos,

    Once again you use the forum to try and discredit COT and it's business model.

    If you think it's so bad and you feel they don't meet your expectations why even bother?

    Many (if not most) of us here see the huge value in COT and are prepared to accept the changing circumstances that affect updates.

    Anyone remotely involved in programming understands the countless unforseen circumstances in creating a working application, even more so in a highly complex creation such as COT.

    Purchase the currently available version and just keep it upgraded to take advantage of each newly released version, whenever they're released. It's just an ongoing business expense.
    The currently available version is more than adequate to build a working, saleable application.
    If you learn COT instead of bagging it you should be able to create and sell at least 1 or 2 applications to cover the upgrade price.

    Cheers,

    Jonesy
    • I am not discrediting CodeOnTime Mr. Jonesy. Please don't say that.

      I think that I am simply demanding from my provider some answers and features which I maybe wouldn't be able to receive during my subscription time because of the unfortunate and incommensurable delays from CodeOnTime in delivering things they had clearly stated to had delivered a some months ago (months ... no days).

      I will tell you respectfully that from your point of view I might had been maybe a little too excessive demanding so many topics regarding unanswered questions and unaccomplished promised-features from CodeOnTime but if you understand, is just a matter of high importance for me to get before my licensing expires.

      In some older posts of mine in this community maybe you had already found out that I'm a a Salvadoran person, retired and with an income wage-pension below $300 a month.

      So it is not a choice for me to be renewing updates in a yearly fashion basis of $1,699 a year.

      I have already invested my ow money (which is a great deal for me and it was a a huge expense from where I stand) in buying a Premium License of CodeOnTime.

      So, please allow me please to deal things on my own with my provider at least for as long I am still a licensed valid customer of CodeOnTime.

      I repeat: I am not discrediting CodeOnTime but asking them.
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    I'm glad I'm not the only old'un Jonesy.
    I started to learn as such in the late 1970's and by the mid 80's I left my real job and started contracting writing s/w in clipper and c. Soon got on to sql and in the early 90's was still contracting but using Oracle Forms, Reports PLSQ etc. followed by loads of TSQL.

    I officially retired 9 years ago (yep, I'm nearly 74) but still do lots of stuff, a lot of it for local charities and I still look after the IT in a local independent school. I've written all of the database system at the school and it's big! I rewrote the whole lot a couple of years ago using Ironspeed who decided to shut down. I'm now In the process of rewriting the whole lot using COT. Most of it is done.

    In my opinion you shouldn't be using COT without some experience in c#, vb, sql, css, html etc. but that's only my opinion. COT does all the time consuming stuff for you which is brilliant. As a programmer you add the magic where required.

    As you say, there's no point in buying the product if it doesn't already do what you want it to do.

    A disadvantage that I have is I pay for COT, MS VS Pro and MSDN etc. but get no money back. (The school pay me peanuts, just as well I like nuts). The other disadvantage is not knowing if I'm still going to be alive when the year / years are up!!

    Keep going COT. Don't do an IronSpeed on us

    Peter
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  • Peter,

    Fantastic story mate!

    I'm 67 but your story gels so much with my own.
    Keep at it my friend because if you're like me you wouldn't be able to stop even if you tried!

    Cheers,
    Jonesy
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    Carlos,

    I understand your situation completely.

    However, I believe that a great and valuable working application can be built using COT WITHOUT the updates on the roadmap.

    It does take a lot of commitment and a lot of work but it is VERY achievable.
    There's almost always a work around for any bugs in the current version if you put your mind to it.

    You bought a perpetual licence when you paid your money so you will always have the latest version up till the date your update time expires, then you'll be able to use that version years in the future without paying any more money.

    SO..

    if you can prove that you've created a complete and workable, online, saleable application, but that you absolutely must have features from the latest upgrade to start selling it, I will pay for a 12 month single licence upgrade for you.

    So now there is no excuse and no need to bag COT as you have done for years, just a challenge to get to work like everyone else here.

    By the Way Carlos - I am a retired person also and I've built a number of applications with COT that work well without upgrades.

    Cheers,

    Jonesy
    • Mr. Jonesy,

      I appreciate your gesture but I wouldn't like to make you use of your money that way. Very kind of you anyway.

      It is in a way beautiful to receive at least such generous offer from someone with which I have been foolishly embarked in a continuous battle of ideas and words.

      Thank you very much.

      Regarding some kind of justification maybe I just have none for you. I just need to use on my own some of the Unlimited edition features. Nothing else.

      Newest release 8.7.5.0, as announced by COT, will have the Unlimited Trial Edition available so I will finally be able to use the until now for me not-available Unlimited Edition's features. That's the key point of it: I want to use the Unlimited features and it maybe (I guess not all Unlimited features will be fully available during trial) I could test on my own the behaviour of such features inside my COT projects.

      I have struggled and tried so many different ways of buying an expired license of CodeonTime so I might be able to use the Unlimited features in my projects.

      I have already asked for the validity and legality of this possibility to COT and from them I have received a positive answer in the sense that I might buy it from someone else but COT, because they don't sell expired licenses.

      But if someone else sell it to me it will be perfectly legal and ok.

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      THIS ARE THE UNLIMITED FEATURES I'D LIKE TO TEST
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      I need it to try simplifying some routines that I have to write on my own for customizing the use of the ASP.Net Membership tables which remain hidden for the COT projects so they can't be used in order to use them as parent tables of some other tables in which you need to have either the UserID or the RoleID as a Foreign Key. So I'd like to have available the Custom Membership feature in my projects.

      I'd also like to have the Auditing (EASE) feature available. A lot of code had to be written in order to save all auditing data without this feature.

      I'd like to have the URL Hashing feature available (EASE)

      I'd like to have all the features regarding Globalization and Localization (as you already know my native language is Spanish and native COT comes in the English language)

      I'd also like to try the "Dynamic Access Control List" feature so I can see how it really might be implemented in a real life situation. COT Learn's samples are really scarce on this topic. "It leaves the implementation up to the developer" ... which is not a quite good thing by the way.
    • Carlos,
      I understand.
      I can only suggest you keep waiting for the free unlimited trial or that you pitch your application idea to the forum and try to find a partner. Even COT themselves have a partnership program. If your idea is good one you may find your answer there.
      Cheers,
      Jonesy
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    Mr. Loki,

    Share your email address with me, I will share a license with you till they come with Unlimited Trial. No costs.

    Thanks,
    Rahul Jain
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