Release 8.6.3.0 Update

Hello COT,
Whats the update on Release 8.6.3.0. it was scheduled for April, 2017. Its okay that you miss deadlines but some update will be appreciated. Thank you.
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  • The highlights of the release are:

    * Advanced Search 3.0 (the new search facility based on Universal Input controls found in forms) - http://community.codeontime.com/codeo...

    * Customizable search screens

    * Direct publishing of apps to Microsoft Azure

    We are working on the video tutorials to go out with the release. The first videos will be published on Tuesday, May 16. The purpose of the videos is to demonstrate and explain the new features. We also shoot videos to verify the implementation. Numerous minor issues are being discovered while we are recording. This helps to pro-actively locate the issues and enhance product usability.

    Subscribe to our channel to stay up-to-date at https://youtube.com/codeontime.

    The release will be out when it is ready.
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  • I’m frustrated
    1
    So nothing from Road map published by COT will be in this release, except advance search?
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  • 3
    Please let there be some fixes for the things that are broken!

    I am hoping and praying that the delay has been for maintenance/repair of broken features....

    Yes the advanced search is essential. MS Azure who cares!
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  • 1
    Yes, Colin is right! A working version of the COT Excel tools would be very high on my list.
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  • I’m frustrated
    3
    Every body suffering from broken feature here and there, each time we have new release some awesome features will be introduced but on the other hand some old or existing features became broken.

    for that we are in very bad situation, to upgrade or stay with the stable version, the problem that those broken features will pop-up slowly after it was too late.

    i hope that COT will take small break from the new features and focus more on fixing the broken issues as our clients can wait for the new features but they cannot accept broken product and that is very frustrating.

    8.6.3 was expected sometime March and now we are middle of May and no specific date has been published on when exactly we will get this release...
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  • Dear COT,

    I'd like to encourage reevaluating processes that are currently in place.

    For starters, what about Beta testing? It appears to me the user community is eager for increased engagement and two way communication, beta testing could promote this, as well as help identify issues more quickly.

    Also, this waterfall development method really stings us in certain cases. Are you sure this is the most appropriate method? Have you considered switching to agile?

    I also promote gathering structured data from the user community on desired features.

    All of this is being said from a very positive light - I think this is a great tool. We should always be reevaluating our processes though.
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    • Thanks for the clarification. I think one great example of adjusting to the market was pushing for a mobile-first approach, so job well done on that.

      My personal opinion on publishing is that visual studio was an appropriate tool, but this is not a major issue.

      I look forward to seeing the product continue to more forward :)
    • Dennis.

      You mentioned in your comment "I am sure our customers do not desire half-working functionality", you are right. However since 3 months the advanced search feature was disabled and up to the moment we don't have a real date when the feature will be available again. Please consider releasing fixes more often without having to wait for a major version which can not fully be used.
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  • 2
    Not that my input is of much value,but it seems like the usual cycle would be to enhance features in a major update and then release fixes until the current features are stable?

    It's challenging because I'm greedy for the features, but if I don't feel safe upgrading then the new features are of limited value. I now wish I had waited, and stayed with 8.5.11. Unfortunately I made major changes before I realized that advanced search was gone.

    Sorry for thinking out loud. :)
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  • I can see both sides in my situation, I have client and IS strategy needs.

    For client I have not been able to move across for last 2 years to TouchUI because its lacking in features taken for granted in Desktop version ie. Advanced search, inline editing and Rich Text. By now, the two UI's should match functionality. Tried a couple of times shifting across but users go back to desktop because of features and performance. Until these features come across I will be staying in desktop.

    On the other side, IS strategy has dictated that we move to SaaS\PaaS so unless they are supported no more CoT projects and alternatives are being reviewed.

    I need it all now !!

    For me the biggest issue it is the lack of delivery on time of features promised.

    Other then that, CoT has definitely served me well
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  • Couldn't you do SaaS now? I guess I presumed that there was a way to do it.
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  • Of course you could create a SaaS app from COT. You would need to build in a payment function but it is acheivable
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  • Indeed, and you don't even need a payment function. I have done this by handling payments outside the system. Works fine for my scenario.
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  • 1
    I am working for a long time with an great CMS called Kentico.

    They publish 1 mayor version and 1 mid-term version every year, we started with V4 and now we are going on V11.

    But every Friday they publish an Hotfix covering known bugs of the current version!

    Maybe an good idea for COT to keep their clients (developers) and our clients (users) happy since what we all are looking for in the 1st place are solutions, new features are very much welcome later.
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  • I am working in IT for over 30 years and whenever I am interested in a new product/service I trial it but also watch closely the community forum.

    Doing this helps me to understand which product/service is well supported and worth buying and which is not.

    I actually bought COT some time ago and love it, but I feel that the complete lack of consistent community support is not only hurting us (developers) but also your sales (COT).
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  • One more thing (well in my opinion):

    Get rid of the 10 table trial version, just offer a 15 or 30 days trial like everybody else!

    Anybody really interested in COT will buy it after the trial and you do not have to support useless amateurs (sorry to say) who have no clue about development of anything in the 1st place!

    This way you can spend more time on your product and your clients!

    Please understand that the cost of us learning, developing and supporting any software created with COT is much higher then the initial COT buying price!!!
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  • I’m frustrated
    I agree and +1 all comments on here. I have been trying to get COT to understand the issues with bug releases for months, unfortunately they keep pushing forward with their strategy of major releases which delay bug fix release dates. We have been waiting for a bug fix for almost a year now, we have finally been told that the fix is coming "soon" in 8.6.3, that was over a month ago... http://community.codeontime.com/codeo...

    On top of that, our application is built in 8.5.11, we have no desire to switch to the new UI look, but will be forced once this bug is actually squashed, because a bug fix will not be released for the older version. This is madness and unheard of anywhere else in software world.

    Here is another example, the updating of master record "subtotal" field from child records line items is one of major "features" that COT is marketing, but this feature doesn't work!?! Two years ago it was promised that it would be fixed in the next release... still waiting.... http://community.codeontime.com/codeo...

    Please, please COT, change your release strategy to include regular bug fix releases that are independent of major feature releases. This is very frustrating!!!
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  • I’m frustrated
    2
    I'm sick of waiting for bug fixes and am actively looking at other technologies to do some of what COT does.

    It's a pity - COT has the potential to be great but the bug-fixing is lacadaisical for all but show-stoppers and there seems to be no care to check that new features work correctly with the older technologies such as ASP Pages. Every new release brings a raft of compatability issues with existing projects.

    Wake up COT you are going to lose customers if you don't develop a better way of performing upgrades.
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  • 2
    I love COT's development paradigm but unfortunately agrees to all issues mentioned here. I also want to add three more, hoping COT will take this thread seriously.

    1. COT don't understand customers need and they will push any development as customers need. Publishing to azure. Dear COT list all functionality and take votes from users, what they want.

    I know COT have to follow their long term development goals but forgetting functionalities promised long time ago for this so called user requirements (most opaque way to get user requirement) is hurting our software development plans badly.

    2. COT add one functionalities and disable one and nobody tells customers about this. I have updated my projects to 8.6.2 and now my customers are cursing me for advanced search.

    3. COT, there is no need to give short timeline for next release and then say, very soon, soon, next week, shortly etc. and most importantly this is happening everytime.

    As a customer, i want new features but not on the cost of old features. I am still continuing with COT as I find it good for development and hopes that COT will wake up for customers need
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  • 1
    COT really needs to look at these criticism and reconsider their strategy.

    I agree with all points mentioned here. We have developed several apps with COT and moving to another platform would be very costly and time consuming now. Therefore not an easy choice.

    But if the support and updates continue like this - we will have to take a difficult decision.
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  • 1
    I guess its a matter of perspective. I am new to COT and find they have a very aggressive release schedule. They hardly get a release out and people are clamoring for the next one. Trust me there are issues with every platform, I have yet to see a perfect development tool.

    Its nice to have release schedules but they are rarely met. For example, ScriptCase v9 was promised for nearly a year and just finally was released a couple of weeks ago. Having changed development languages a number of times over the years I can assure you its a huge decision and a huge time commitment. I get anxious just thinking about it.

    I will wait for COT 8.6.3. Like everyone else, it has some features that are of interest to me for my upcoming projects. I am sure the identified bugs will be fixed. If v 8.6.3 doesn't arrive in time I have a fallback plan and all will be well.
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  • I’m frustrated
    1
    It seems we are talking amongst ourselves with no acknowledgment or response from COT.
    Very frustrating.
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  • My Customer send me these images recently, as i was not able to give any reply to their need (advance search etc..)....





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  • I’m frustrated
    It is highly appreciated if you kindly give us some update about the release 8.6.3
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  • The update will go out on June 4.

    The first video tutorial that goes together with the release 8.6.3.0 is available at https://youtu.be/zv7d0UeAmX0.

    We are producing a few episodes that will be published next week:
    Episode 13: Creating Production Database
    Episode 14: Creating Production Deployment
    Episode 15: Staging App Deployment

    There will be a standalone video tutorial(s) explaining the new Advanced Search 3.0. We are working on the scripts and validating the new functionality right now. Countless enhancements were made to the Universal Input controls to support the new search capabilities.

    We will post an announcement with the details of the release next week. The highlights of the release are new deployment features (File System, FTP, Azure) and all-new Advanced Search.

    Some of you a questioning the value of new deployment features. Those are the prerequisites for the native mobile apps. This is the mobile development sequence with Code On Time:

    1) Build an app on your development machine
    2) Deploy an app to a production server
    3) Publish an app to an App Store
    4) Run mobile app on a native device

    We are planning to go out with this release 8.6.7.0 (native mobile apps) by the end of June 2017. Native apps will include cross-platform built-in support for barcode scanning and possibly QR-code scanning. Further episodes of To-Do app series at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=208Ye... will cover items (3) and (4).

    Next we will release support for "offline" mode in release 8.6.8.0. Several components are already included in the code base of 8.6.3.0. See implementation details at http://codeontime.com/roadmap#offline in the section describing the Offline Data Processor.
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  • 1
    You guys are still not listening to your customers. Unless you have some large customers who are driving your decision making and they are not participating in these discussions, most of your customers are primarily interested in bug fixes for features that we are already using. I have not read one message that is asking for native mobile apps or built-in deployment feature. I think you are completely missing the mark again.
    • view 1 more comment
    • Dear COT,

      Advanced Search and login issues in touch UI.
    • William, nice try, but don't bother, CS response above is just another example of the fact that they "don't get it". Just reading through this thread raises numerous issues that are not addressed, let alone all the other bugs that have been documented throughout the Forums. On many occasions I have pointed out legitimate bugs that are still not fixed, I will not spend my time rehashing them here again. They clearly don't care about what their customers think, so we can either sit or get off the pot. For now we are stuck with COT, but we are looking for other options...
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  • As a potential COT developer, I see a consistent thread in the community complaints here.

    What are the alternatives, relative to the value of COT as a development environment.
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  • 3
    A very personal viewpoint from a satisfied "COTer"...

    Having developed on a few platforms and looked at a lot more over a number of years (started building apps in Access 95), I sincerely doubt that there's anything as comprehensive as COT out there.

    I can fairly quickly build a user friendly application in COT that is fully responsive to fit smart phones and tablets without building numerous duplicate pages and background code.
    I would no longer consider building an app that can't be used on these platforms as in my mind the software market is way past the desktop only phase.

    Once past the learning curve COT applications can be built quite fast.
    I've learnt that it helps to stay within the "out of the box" functionality as much as possible to avoid getting bogged down by complexity and confusion.

    Also I recommend watching the video tutorials and building a Northwind app along with them.

    Most of the complaints here seem to revolve around 4 issues:
    1. Cot's development road-map and the release dates of new features...
    This doesn't bother me too much as I know full well the numerous unforeseen challenges that arise from software innovation. Just when you're sure it's all good to go a small issue arises that turns it all to sh----.

    2. Bug Fixes slow to be introduced...
    Although sometimes frustrating I realise that these fixes are seldom achieved by a "click of a mouse" and can often lead to a rebuilding/redesigning of whole sections of software.

    3. The development of new features over repairing old bugs...
    Ditto above. Sometimes a new feature is required to fix an old bug.

    4. Slow response to requests for help...
    I've also experienced this on a few occasions but we're repeatedly told that support is only available as time permits which is not the ideal, however for a big game changing problem I've found a paid consultation via webex is often worth far more than what you pay for it.

    I feel that COT's customer satisfaction shouldn't be gauged too much from here because, although I have no way of knowing how many customers COT has, I'm sure it's many more than is represented on this thread.

    Cheers
    Jonesy
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  • I totally agree with Jonesy, COT is best development tool for quick development of web/mobile applications. It have a lot of good features not available in other tools of same league and also has short learning curve. But certainly with some drawbacks like least attention to customer issues and long hot fix timing.

    After using it from last 3 year, although, i am not satisfied but still continuing with it as it is best available.
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  • Jonesy, you miss 1 point ....

    5. Documentation.
    For whatever reason COT has decided to use a non traditional way of achieving this task. In my opinion is not substitute for traditional documentation standards. Most of the questions in this forum would not be necessary if such documentation existed. Can tell you the many times that Dennis mentions a feature or property or tag or ... that is no where to be found in the current set.

    With that said, COT like any other software firm is trying to keep a balance of maintenance and new features ... how to release both we need to agree that there is room for improvement.
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  • Jonesy, with all due respect, your comments are 100% accurate, but not relevant to this thread. We all understand the pitfalls of software development, and we know the strengths of CoT, but we are trying to provide constructive ctriticism so that CoT will provide us with a stable platform so that we can do our job.

    We have been using CoT for a year and have paid $2500 for our license. When we signed up there were three promises that were made at the time:
    - Touch UI will be updated to support same features as desktop
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  • Thanks Tom but I believe my post was relevant to the thread as I was replying to the comment made by Doghouse Dev in the post above mine.
    Maybe I should have intro'd the post "Doghouse Dev". Sorry.
    Cheers
    Jonesy
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  • Hi Everybody,
    I am a licensed user of COT but so far have not started using it yet, but very soon I will need to start using it.
    I have been following almost all messages posted here just to be aware of current update/stability situation to avoid surprises with the current version once I start my web project and I have to admit, I totally agree with Tom Kustura's position towards COT.
    I am a .Net/Desktop developer and have not much experience working on web applications. I did a very nice web application using Alpha Anywhere and had to admit the learning curve was very weird since I had to learn a new programming language but one of the things that bothered me was the fact that when they released updates, always some other functionality stopped working and that made the updates very unreliable, and at that time, they were also re-writing a lot of stuff to support mobile applications too. The good thing was that they were very good on providing patch updates to fix the bugs.

    As a licensed COT user, I am definitely concerned by the COT behavior when releasing updates that would break working applications and despite the fact that new features are being introduced, stability of current working applications should be the number 1 priority.

    I also, appreciate the fact, that Dennis Bykkov and some other members of COT take time to promptly respond to support request and they seem to be on target with their replies.
    Also, I do like the new videos to help understand how to use COT, but a good documentation with all the detailed information needed is a must to have, specially for all the hidden settings that may affect CTO functionality and features.

    As a developer, I do understand COT, and I prefer not to have an untested or unreliable update, but they really need to listen to the constructive feedback from your community. I for one, if I would not bought a COT license before, I would think twice before investing in COT today, even though, promise features and update end up being great features to COT.
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  • Touch UI 2017 has been introduced in May of 2017. It took us 5 months to completely replace the older touch-enabled GUI with a brand new one (https://codeontime.com/learn/touch-ui...).

    We have also delivered the frequently requested feature called Import. The ability to import data has existed in Classic (Desktop) UI for a long time. The new implementation in Touch UI 2017 does not require any additional software to be installed on the server, performs significantly better and offers enhanced import error reporting and automated duplicate testing and resolution. The best part is that it is built on top of the the same "forms" engine available in Touch UI 2017, which provides consistent user experience in custom and built-in forms - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt2p3....

    Advanced Search has been introduced in Touch UI in January of 2015 (see announcement at https://codeontime.com/blog/2015/01/b...). We were not able to complete this feature in time for Touch UI 2017 release. That is why we have temporarily disabled this feature and will be re-introducing the feature as Advanced Search 3.0 over this weekend on June 4 in release 8.6.3.0. Numerous new capabilities such as context-sensitive adaptive filters, top 5/10 filters, and support for completely custom easy-to-configure search forms is a part of the release (not available previously in Classic or previous version of Touch UI).

    We are not abandoning any features without a proper replacement. For example, we have replaced legacy project type SharePoint Factory with the support for SharePoint integration in Web App Factory and Web Site Factory projects - https://codeontime.com/learn/sharepoi....

    Tools for Excel will be replaced with the ability to edit properties in-line in CoT v9 due out this summer.

    Understandably some of you do not plan to ever move to mobile development. We are still going to make those guys into "mobile experts". Release 8.7.0.0 is coming at the end of this month with the native mobile apps. True offline execution will be available in release 8.8.0.0 schedule for July/August. One of the building blocks for mobile development is the integrated deployment.



    This is why we are offering an all-new project publishing in release 8.6.3.0. Tight integration with Microsoft Azure makes it possible having apps deployed both to the web and mobile devices in minutes. FTP/File System option supports other deployment environments.

    Offline support in mobile apps will benefit every Web-only developer. Forms will display child "Data View" fields when creating new records. Rows entered in child "Data View" fields will be saved with the primary records in the scope of a single transaction. Cancelling a form will cancel changes to the primary records and child data views. Transaction data input will become possible thanks to the Offline Data Processor described at https://codeontime.com/roadmap#offline.

    The last remaining core element of Touch UI 2017 is called "inline editing". We have supported inline editing in Classic UI for the past several years. Touch-enabled replacement will likely come with the release 8.9.0.0 in July/August or a little sooner. We are working on a complete replacement for the current Grid/List/Cards. The look-and-feel will remain the same. We are removing wrapper "a" elements from the items and adding support for inline editing and drawers. The latter will enable "grid-in-a-grid" presentation with any number of items expanded at the same time. Individual grid/list/card items will behave as forms with the optional ability to infinitely expand and reveal linked "Data View" fields.

    The foundation for the new documentation is the collection of the video tutorials at https://youtube.com/codeontime. Enhanced transcripts will closely follow the video materials are being prepared. Subscribe to our channel to stay up-to-date.
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  • Very Disappointed.

    i totally agree with Tom remark posted 4 days ago "You guys are still not listening to your customers. Unless you have some large customers who are driving your decision making and they are not participating in these discussions."

    Tools for Excel is very great and productive tools that allow us to do mass changes to our project this cannot be done by in-line edit, you have killed the tools.

    I urge COT team to spend some time and fix this tools.
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  • I agree with Haitham and Tom.

    Who decides what is important and what should be given priority. Your software is not meant for you - it is meant for your customers and they need to have a say in this.

    Several other customers have given this suggestion that you should build a list of features and let customers vote on them.

    From my perspective - deployment is useless. We have been deploying it to various platform - including WebViewApps for Android and iOS. Having an inbuilt feature would make it easier - but slightly so.

    Rahul
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  • One question on the upcoming offline support. What is the conflict resolution used. I have a case where I need to allow multiple offline users to count stock for a large location. I need the updates coming from the offline users to add to the count on the server and not do a last in is best conflict resolution. Is that something that is handled in the upcoming feature.
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  • Hi

    Thanks for all posts.

    For me as developer the most important things in order are:

    1.) Fix all bugs (ex. in 1 Week)
    2.) No new problems with upgrade to new Versions.
    2.) Same functionality in classic and touch UI
    3.) Implementing new promised functionality in specified Time.

    Thanks, Peter.
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  • We are still dealing with a few issues in the new Advanced Search 3.0 in Touch UI.

    The release date has been pushed to June 8. It is worth the wait!
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  • 1
    I really hate beating up on you guys because COT really is a great product, but I have to say that 8.6.3 is only going to be worth the wait if it includes all the bug fixes and features that have been promised long ago that all of us have been patiently waiting for! If it does not, you are going to have to wait for our renewal license fee because we are not upgrading until some of those critical bug fixes and features are brought current. Advanced Search works great in 8.5.11 and that's what we are sticking with.
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  • well its now June 9 so the pushed back release date from COT didn't happen. I would advise the COT Customer Service that when an already published delivery date is not going to be achieved that the new date is ACTUALLY met.
    This gives an even poorer impression to your customers.
    So the big question is when is the new revised (again) release date the next release (even though it would seem that the new release doesn't actually have any features that your customers actually want).
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  • In one post from customer service, i've read release 8 June and general availability 9 June. Today should be the right day.
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  • Please point me to the customer service post that states release June 8 general availability June 9 as the post in this thread by Customer service only mentions June 8. I am happy to be corrected, but if there is another post then the customer service team are not consistent in the messages
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  • The release will be ready any day now. We keep finding things that require more work.

    http://community.codeontime.com/codeo....
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  • How interesting that we once again have the non specific "any day now". I have seen this used by COT many times with regard to version releases and it can mean anything from a few days to a few months.

    I won't be holding my breath for this release. Or am I just becoming too cynical
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  • What are you guys and gals expecting to see in 8.6.3 release? (real question, I am not being funny)

    I am hoping that "We keep finding things that require more work" means that they are going through the message boards and fixing all the bugs that have been reported. Not holding my breath though, it sounds like all we are getting is "Advanced Search" -- a feature that worked just fine 3 versions ago...
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  • 1
    It will be disaster if the reported bugs was not fixed, at this point of time all what we need to get fix for the bugs in order to deliver what we have committed to since the release 8.5.9

    now six month later we are stuck in the middle, we cannot go back to 8.5.9 and we cannot deliver with the bugs in 8.6.2

    is all or some of the bugs will be resolved, we are not sure. it seems to me that COT keep pushing for new features despite most of us considered low value instead of fixing the existing bugs.

    i hope that COT realize that this approach will not works, we need maintenance release to fix the bugs and let them take all the time for feature release.
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