I’m angry and frustrated

Code On Time is no longer a useable tool

When I started with COT it allowed a non-ASP.NET programmer to make web sites to access databases. But over time it has become more and more complex to the point that you MUST be a programmer to use it. I got my company to pay $800 to update it and a month later it says it wants $800 again to update it again. I can't get my bosses to spring for that kind of cash when it has never even worked for us yet. I have been trying to make a web site work for months with no success. I have NO IDEA where to turn or what to do.
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  • Christopher,

    Please submit your activation code in a ticket at http://support.codeontime.com and we can investigate any issue of your code not working. The shortest activation code interval we offer is 6 months. 

    Have you seen the ToDo app tutorials? They illustrate a standard workflow that only requires basic knowledge of database structure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLy2g3SjvDe2YjTOPLaFaxzm1ijkDgVbcK&v=208Ye0K7wXQ

    What other issues have you been having?
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  • Christopher,
    A "programmer" is a very broad description, but under no description do I consider myself a professional developer, since that is not my full time job. From my experience I can tell you that COT is a powerful tool, and very simple to use for a non "programmer" to develop some powerful solutions. I have developed a complex and feature rich CRM application using COT, in a very short period of time.

    While I did outsource some advanced custom programming to a professional programmer, most of the work was done by myself. Of course, some level of knowledge and understanding of design principles of database based applications is required to do the design part of it, then after that, putting it together using COT was a snap. COT is a powerful RAD tool.
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  • Well, simply put, you would not want to leave in a building designed by somebody that knows a bit about using a designer software instead of an architect.
    Many tools are sold with the idea that you don't have to be a software developer to create an application, like IronSpeed, MS Access, Alpha V, etc., but that will work for a company owner that can afford to have a failed project due to the lack of knowledge and experience, but not for a full time employee.
    So if you are hired to do the job of the architect, then you better start learning before they figured it out.
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  • Christopher,

    There must be an issue with the billing and I'm sure Dennis will get that straightened out for you. COT is pretty powerful but a bit overwhelming at first. I started out with it to build a app for my business and it took a little while to get comfortable with it. I went through the tutorials and that is what really helped me the most. I found it quite fun as well. I would start here http://codeontime.com/learn/sample-ap... You can do quite a lot with COT with very little programming experience. I think you will like it as you start to get comfortable with it.

    Scott
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  • My problem is that it works until I move it to another server and then the circus begins. It's error after error, day after day, find one error and then the next one, and days, weeks, months go by and it still doesn't work. I have an application the six db admins and I have been working on for over a year and it still won't run. The error messages are useless and usually wrong. COT tells me "try this" and "try that" and it's obvious they don't know the cause of the error either. Now my problem is that the people in charge think it's a big joke and won't pay to keep it current. So I am one version out of date. So of course now that is the problem! Spend more and then it will work! Aaaaaaaaarrrrrggghhhhh! And getting help is impossible. People on the forum don't answer. No help at all. I thought COT went out of business for a while.

    Anyway, now we have been playing for 16 months with zero progress.
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  • I have offered to pay someone to get on my computer remotely and help - no takers. I was told that dot net is wrong version. Nope. Then it was corrupt dot net. Not that either. Then it was bad visual studio install. Nope. Then the Windows install was corrupt they said. Massive reloads later it is still broke. After that they just stopped responding to me. Dumped me. Now what can I do?
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  • I’m frustrated
    I will be in my grave before this actually works. I restored an old backup and it ran! Once. Then it never ran again. And the errors are very fundamental things like variables that don't exist.

    I could use this A LOT if only it would work.
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  • I’m frustrated
    Been through all the tutorials. Those apps work. My apps work at first and then fall apart after I gave put in weeks of work. They never work again once that happens.
    Invalid XML. Missing variables. Missing files. Reports not loaded (but it is). Something new every time.
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  • I’m frustrated
    Why can't the app verify the version of dot net that it needs and tell me if it is wrong? Why does it have to fail in some obscure way and take weeks to find out the dot net version is wrong?
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  • I’m frustrated
    Why do the error messages NEVER EVER tell anything useful?
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  • I’m frustrated
    I'm sorry, but I have been rough pure hell with COT and it will likely cost me my job. I would give anything for help, but I seem to be on my own.
    • Christopher,
      Completely understand your frustrations. Been there, trust me.
      First step that I would recommend is to update your development computer with the latest Windows updates, SQL Management Studio updates, Visual Studio updates, and finally all .Net updates. This has fixed a lot of my headaches.

      Which database are you using? SQL, MySQL, Oracle?

      Next step would be to create a free Azure account and deploy your application on Azure, this way you are sure that there is not a problem with on-premise database servers, web servers, etc. If it works on Azure, then you have a problem on your local servers.

      Finally, I have experienced many times the problem with seemingly "missing variables" etc, and every time it turned out to be an issue that I have created by adding a filter, or a lookup, then removing a column from the database server that was used in that filter. This requires a lot of step by step backtracking and is very time consuming and frustrating, but it is part of software development that we all have to deal with.

      Final point, you will not find a better solution than COT out there. Yes, they have some issues that I have also pointed out on forums here, but the solution is solid and works well.
    • All updates are current. I am using SQL Server 2010 and 2012. I have NO IDEA what Azure is or what it does, or anything about it. I think I will have to scrap my whole project and start again from scratch. It will be the fifth time I have had to do that in 18 months. But nobody seems to have an answer, so there is nothing left. Everything I do with COT is very basic. We have wasted so much time on this that my management wants us to scrap it. We actually have a site up and running at one client, but no others have ever worked.
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  • Dennis wants my activation code. It's been two years since I saw that. I need to find it.
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  • Chrisopher,

    Purchase a consultation at http://codeontime.com/services and we will have someone good take a look at your deployment computer.
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  • I’m anxious
    Dear Customer Service,

    Any chance you could kindly look up Ticket #9372 for us please and revert at your earliest convenience please. It's time-bound and important please.

    Thanks.

    Gabriel VII
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  • Gabriel - I appreciate your comments. I am just very frustrated! I am bothered by things that, to me, seem stupid. If I compile for one version of dot net and the server is running another one, all hell breaks loose and errors start flying. Why doesn't the system simply tell me that I am not running on the correct version of dot net? Can't it check that? It would have saved me WEEKS of time to just get that error message! I know it was stupid of me to mix the versions up, but people WILL do that kind of thing! There are a number of things like that - things that you feel SHOULD be easier to fix. These "little things" are what frustrate the developer no end because they eat up precious time.
    • Chris,

      It definitely would be nice to report errors in .NET configuration. Unfortunately, any code we may write that could report such errors would never execute because the code cannot compile. Typically the error message will point you to a missing DLL or incorrect .NET. 
    • Dear Chris,

      My heart goes out to you. Awwwh... I can only imagine.
      I agree with you, back in the days, you didnt need to know how to program to get a truly fabuous COT App with masterpages et al. That was the beauty of it, but in retrospect, I think truly at the time we didnt have a lot of expectations for what applications should do. Back then if I recall there were no JavaScript business rules and other such Business Rules that one relies on so much these days (clientside) that it's difficult to imagine how one got on without it.

      I dare say, the surest way to get on with COT is to constantly keep reading... and I really mean, wake up and start reading through random questions on the forum. That's one of the surest way to keep abreast of the newest way of doing things, which oftimes becomes the simplified way. Eg using the checkbox "This Field Is Virtual in certain scenarios when you dont want certain things written into a real database column from the UI and U'd rather do it with maybe an SQL Business Rule" etc. I still recall reading a column thread on how the same thing was achieved using three different methodologies, and I reckon the question was asked with reference to "ContextFields" or "Causes Calculate" or some not obviously direct issue.

      The truth is that with COT, the same thing can be achieved in so many different ways, that it's difficult to get things done really quickly without constantly reading up. These days, I look at certain client requirements and know for sure that... given enough time, they'd require us to not just build applications that make Cows Fly... they'd want it flying diagonally backward at 31.2 km/hr.

      Please don't pull your hair out yet for having multiple versions. It happens to the best of us. Do let me know how you fare with ironing out those little mischief makers outta your machines, and when you find the time, look at the new videos. I picked quite an array of new tricks just by looking through 6 of them.

      Try hard as you may, there's no escaping that Users have become more demanding. Even we as developers have become more critical of our expectations of our own apps. It's almost virtually impossible to build any enterprise app today without really getting our hands dirty with code. And between building from COT and Building from Visual Studio. Kindly guess which 'd pick? :D :D

      Many times though, we are in the same boat... eg. 'm not sure I agree with the fact that Model Builder dosent give us anymore the automatic MasterPage-DetailPage linking out of box, I haven't troubled myself to discover if it's a necessary abstraction, or it's in the works, or it's a trade-off (for the copy and paste as well as drag and drop functionality in the UI). Sometimes, we dont worry about some of those things... and that gives us overall a very positive outlook and cheerful experience. With how far the framework has come... I daresay, it can only keep getting better... and with more power, needless to say comes the need more documentation to keep abreast of. Eg Data-tags, which are getting more powerful by the day and I haven't troubled myself with them yet... but will soon.

      Don't worry, do hang in there, once you get the hang of it, 'm sure you'll be fine.
      Lovely day to you.

      -Gabriel VII
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  • Well, I took everyone's advice to heart and worked through the night, reading everything and checking everything. I made some progress - I can now generate and browse the site! But, alas, I am back to the failure to publish problem that has plagued me for two years. I get the old:

    : Build (web): Failed to create AppDomain.

    I have tried everything and nothing works. I have not been able to publish a project since 2014. This is the kind of frustration I am talking about.
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  • Christopher, there is a better solution to your problem.

    Google "Build (web): Failed to create AppDomain." and you will find a few solutions.
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  • I have tried all these solutions and nothing worked. But I will run through them again just in case. I am finding from emails that many people have this problem and just ignore it and don't use "publish" at all.
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