ASP.NET Core Compatibility

Has the COT team given any thought to the newly released ASP.NET Core (https://docs.asp.net/en/latest/intro....) and how hard it will be to modify/enhance the COT framework to be compatible with it?
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  • We have certainly investigated the new ASP.NET Core and have prototyped the integration already with the late beta version of ASP.NET Core.

    There is no immediate benefit in migrating the core framework to the new "Core" technology - the performance of the apps will stay the same.

    One interesting opportunity becomes available - the generated app may run as a standalone process without a web server (the web server is effectively built-in).

    ASP.NET Core apps can run on Windows, Mac, and Linux. This is something that we will be exploring next year (Spring).

    Our current priorities:
    1) New YouTube channel dedicated to Code on Time with weekly video releases
    2) Completion of the feature set in Touch UI
    3) Native client apps for iOS, Android, and Windows.
    4) Code On Time v9
    5) Cloud On Time
    6) Offline capabilities in client apps

    Presently developers use a dedicated design environment (Windows Application), generate the app, and preview the app in the browser. Code On Time v9 completely changes the development paradigm - it brings the design environment directly into the app. Developers will have instant preview of customization and ability to change the app on the spot. The new project designer is completely web-based. It is quite possible that we will be able to offer a completely cross-platform development tool by moving the generated apps to ASP.NET Core.
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  • Thanks for the response. That possibility sounds very interesting from a portability standpoint, but yeah, I get how it won't really improve performance. I just know that MS seems to be recommending ASP.NET Core as the way forward for new web apps that get developed... ;^)
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  • It's two years later, and I definitely think COT needs to rapidly proceed towards .NET Core after clearing the existing roadmap backlog. The rumor I hear is that MS will not have any new releases of .NET "classic" - only Core moving forward...
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  • The framework of apps created with Code On Time has zero dependencies on the features that Microsoft has introduced in the suite of ASP.NET technologies in the past years.

    .NET Core brings about zero improvements in speed for the apps created with Code On Time.

    The primary benefits of .NET Core are as follows:
    1) It is possible not to use IIS Express to run apps during development.
    2) It is possible to deploy apps to platforms other than windows (for example, MAC OS)

    We will rewrite the core code of the application framework as soon as we get CoT v9 out. The roadmap will be updated soon with more details.
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  • I’m frustrated
    Well, as predicted, the time has come where I now have customers refusing to let me use COT *solely because it isn't using .NET CORE*. Please COT Team - while you and I know the advantages may not be earth-shattering, the market is NOW insisting on .NET CORE for new development! I can no longer make the case for engaging in new work running on what is now considered a legacy framework (.NET Framework 4.x)...
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  • Mentations

    I am curious what it is the customers are after in CORE that the .NET framework does not.

    I am just wondering about what they are seeing as advantages. Its not a COT question its more CORE vs .NET question.

    As a VB developer, CORE does not support that language for web development. So for me personally CORE is a loss not a gain.
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  • Hi John - this is actually about the direction the market is moving. Often I find that customers know just enough about technology to know that .NET Framework is now considered legacy and .NET Core X is the current version to use. Heck, they may not even realize .NET Core is at version 3 but just know ".NET Core" is the MS-touted way forward. To give you slightly more detail, I work with large government clients that have numerous IT contractor pros onsite - these people (and their own light research) is how they find out these factoids. No one wants to start a new project in a "legacy" technology that is expected to last 5+ years (with minor O&M enhancements).

    (BTW, I'm now hearing mixed things about the VB.NET support in Core - which is better than what I'd heard before - i.e., it may get full support after all.)
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  • Thanks for the added info. As a VB person I have not been overly excited about Core because of the loss of support for that language.

    Like you I work on government projects but I have not seen any push to move to Core from them yet. I suppose it will come.

    I keep hoping for VB to be added back to the web side of Core. If they can support F# it seems like VB would have a larger base and worth doing.
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  • I just dug a little deeper - looks like VB.NET is being supported for "Desktop" related scenarios but not "Web" (i.e., ASP.NET Core) currently:

    https://dotnetcoretutorials.com/2019/...
    https://devblogs.microsoft.com/vbteam...
    https://github.com/aspnet/AspNetCore/...
    https://github.com/aspnet/AspNetCore/...

    You may wanna hedge your bets and learn C# (I also had to as a VB/VB.NET guy - it becomes tolerable after 6 months or so lol)

    (BTW, this was another market-driven necessity - clients had/have much easier time finding C# programmers vs. VB.NET and so don't want to commit to new dev work in VB.NET!)
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  • .NET Core is still not a priority right now.

    Our primary goal is to position Code On Time as a low code rapid application development tool for offline and online apps.

    Cot v9 is coming soon. The new version will bring about visual development tools built into the live app.

    Term "app generator" is a misleading. Our product does not create the code for you to pick up and further enhance. Instead we give you a complete application that relies on .NET runtime. You are not writing ASP.NET code, you are writing business rules in C# or VB.

    Starting with V9 will use the term "app builder" when referring to our product.

    .NET 3.0 Core gives zero advantages from performance prospective. You cannot create apps that work in offline mode with it. Code On Time allows building an app that works both in a browser and on a mobile device.

    Code On Time apps do not rely on ASP.NET. We use the raw Request/Response objects to communicate with the browser.

    The web infrastructure of .NET Core apps uses a slightly different implementation of Request/Response.

    We will create a special layer that wraps the core objects of Request/Response model. The framework will be using the wrapper.

    The implementation of the wrapper will use .NET Core-specific or ASP.NET specific APIs.

    VB users will still be able to use their favorite language. Presently you cannot write apps with .NET Core in VB. We support implementation of the app framework in the class library right now if you choose "Advanced Option" when creating a new project.

    The app generator will create .NET Core apps with the class library option. The main app will use provide the implementation of the Request/Response wrapper and reference the class library of the framework.
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  • Good new for me about VB and moving for with new version of Code on Time. For me its a huge relief to hear this.

    I will be honest I have never really entirely understood the architecture COT uses. The above explanation was helpful. So thanks for taking the time to explain.
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  • Sounds pretty interesting (whenever it gets implemented). I guess my main point is that since I'm a programmer/consultant and am using your product to create apps for others, it is becoming a major roadblock when they ask if I'm using .NET Core. They immediately think I'm using old/dated/legacy technology if I tell them I'm not. This means my customers will decrease over time which in turn means I am less likely to renew my subscription (until you implement what you've stated above)...
    • Offline Sync and V9 are our priority right now.

      Our goal is to help building a single app that works offline and online with first-class development tools in a truly rapid fashion (live project designer).


      We will be getting a few more features into the product as explained at http://community.codeontime.com/codeo....

      .NET Core support will follow.

      Try searching for HttpContext, HttpResponse, and HttpRequest in your app. You will find approximately 200 references. We are planning to provide AppHttpRequest, AppHttpContext, AppHttpResponse and a few more utility classes.

      All references will be replaced with the "App..." wrapper classes. We are not going to provide the full functionality of the corresponding classes of ASP.NET. Instead we will provide methods replacing complex chains of calls with their equivalents limited to the use-cases of Data Aquarium framework. The wrapper will provide a default implementation based on ASP.NET.

      .NET Core version of the app will have a different implementation of the wrapper classes. The app framework will be implemented as class library.

      Only the apps based on HTML page model and Touch UI will be supported. 


      The framework in the foundation of the apps created with Code On Time uses generic data provider model. We do not expect any issues when migrating to ASP.NET Core.
    • Very useful info - thanks for sharing!
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